The Biggest Hiring Mistake You Can Avoid with Gina Suzanne

This week, I spoke with Gina Suzanne, a visionary entrepreneur with an exceptional ability to delegate, even with ADHD. With a passion for building outstanding teams, Gina specializes in helping businesses find the perfect offshore talent, particularly from the Philippines. Through her own entrepreneurial journey, she has gained valuable insights into the challenges and benefits of hiring remote staff. Gina's approach revolves around strategically matching the unique skills and experiences of offshore employees with the evolving needs of businesses, ensuring effective growth and scaling. Her expertise has proven instrumental in transforming numerous businesses, establishing her as a sought-after expert in the realm of team building and offshore staffing.

Visit Gina Suzanne's social media pages:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gina-suzanne/

Website: https://structure2scale.com/

  📍 The biggest regret with my business was that I didn't hire sooner. And I know that a lot of you might be thinking, well, I'm just making enough money to pay myself. You want me to pay somebody else? Well, yes, I do. And, um, I brought in a guest today. That's going to talk to us all about how. Hiring the right people is going to just fast track you for success.

So if you have yet to hire anyone, you are going to want to listen to today's episode so that you can find the perfect person to help you grow your business and scale your company.

  Welcome to Rocky Mountain Marketing. I'm your host, Katie Brinkley. Join us as we dive deep with the world's leading digital marketing experts every single Tuesday. It's all about giving you the strategies that are working right now, directly from those who are making an impact. With my 20 years of experience, I'm here to help you navigate the world of digital marketing.

Whether you're looking to sharpen your skills or transform your business, you're in the right place. Let's get started on today's journey to success.

  📍 📍 📍 Welcome to this week's Rocky mountain marketing episode. You know, I, I really regret that I didn't hire sooner and I started my business back in November of 2016 and I didn't hire my very first person until, man, March, maybe April of 2020.

She's still with me. So those of you who are clients of Next Step Social, Raci. She's amazing. She's was my very first hire and she's still here. Man, that was my biggest regret is I didn't hire sooner. And I kept thinking to myself, well, I can't afford anyone. Well, I can't afford to pay somebody else. And so I know where you're coming from.

And if you are looking to grow your team and grow your business, I brought in the perfect guest for you today, dear Rocky mountain marketing listener. So today's guest is a visionary with ADHD and delegation is her superpower. Today's guest is none other than Gina Suzanne and her superpower is helping you build a fantastic team.

Because again, I've worked with Gina and after working with her. I was like, you got to come on the podcast and share some of the secret sauce. So she's super passionate about what she does. And she's so successful at helping businesses grow by hiring awesome employees that, you know, just go above and beyond and really are the missing link for your business.

So she specializes in helping people find their offshore, uh, Perfect, perfect employee. Uh, most, most everyone, right, Gina is, is from the Philippines that work with you and I, it is a secret, that is the secret sauce. It's, it's actually interesting because I was talking to a number of people and I was like, I only like to hire my employees.

Well, besides us and Philippines, that's what we are as us and Philippine staff. And I really have enjoyed working with people from the Philippines. They are just absolutely incredible. But before I get ahead of myself here. Gina, thank you so much for joining me on Rocky Mountain Marketing today.

  📍 📍 It is my pleasure. I'm humbled to be here.

I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this. Love the podcast. Long time fan. First time on.

  📍 📍 well, so Gina, you and I actually met through a mutual friend, Alicia Barr. Alicia was my sales coach a few years ago, and we've just stayed in She's amazing. Changed my, changed my business. Um, you know, like that's, you know, I, and I, people that change my business, I want to help elevate out there into the world.

  📍 📍 and I want to just like give you guys the megaphone because we, it is, you know, it's a village to help grow businesses sometimes I think. And when you find people are hard to find, whether it's your team or your friend or a vendor, good people are hard to find totally.

  📍 📍 Totally. And if you can find the people that help you elevate your business, you got to just hang on to them. And, um, like I said, Alicia introduced us, um, and then I started working with you, you helped me find three of my employees here at next step social, and it's just been awesome. And I guess let's start there.

Like what. What got you into this helping kind of playing like the perfect matchmaker between business owners and people in the Philippines that are looking to do digital marketing and man, so much more than, than just digital marketing and literally anything.   📍 Anything, really? Such a good question because I was in maybe a lot of the same seats that people are listening here today. Surely I was in your shoes. I still am a business owner, right? Um, and when I had two companies previously that I exited and I was playing, um, COO role. And I was, first of all, ADHD, undiagnosed, rampant, running wild, drowning in tasks, thought I had to do everything because I see people doing it all.

And then I was traveling throughout Asia and I was looking at all of these business owners on the beach, just checking in on their team. And they had their business running on autopilot. And I'm like, People are doing less, making more and living their life. We are human beings, not human doings. And I had to crack that code.

So I knew that people were having a lot of success with working with people in the Philippines. I was drowning. So I did what most people do. And I went to an agency and quite honestly, it was a terrible experience, Katie, it was terrible because they, you know, I came, I told them I am stressed, I need help and they just were like, here, here's someone.

And that's it. They just connected me with one person and it was a nightmare. They didn't really understand what I needed. They didn't have the skill sets. They weren't vetted. So I called them back and I was like, listen, give me your best person. Okay. And they did, they sent me a great person. And then we work with them for a long time.

And one day she said, I'm leaving. And I was like, Oh my God, why you hate me? And she's like, no, I'm not getting paid by the company. And that's when I found about digital slavery and this dark side of having offshore talent, and it really shook me to my core because it didn't feel right. So I told her, you know, Like, Oh my gosh, if you want to, if you would like to come to work with me, I would take care of you.

I would pay you on time. I would help you grow. I would train you. And our relationship really bloomed. And then when it was time to hire another person, I was like, I'm going to do it myself. And that's where I found Marge, my right hand for the last five years. And she's still with us today. And actually that person who came over is still with us.

with us today, working with another client. Um, so I guess I, I needed help. I saw that people were doing it and I tried a few different ways and I had to just do it myself because I knew what I was looking for was a little bit different. I wanted someone to care the way I care for my business. I wanted them to believe what I believe so they would show up and echo our core values and echo our excellence when it comes to customers.

So it's one of those old things, like I just had to go and do it myself. to, to have it right. Um, and then word kind of spread that like Gina finds good team members and then

  📍 📍 now that's all we do.

Well, I like that you said that, you know, you wanted to find someone that cared and it is true. I feel like everyone, well, you know, everyone on my team that you've helped me find really does. Care. And it's, uh, it's not just another because you can find anybody. I mean, honestly, you can find anybody anywhere like Upwork, Fiverr, you name it, you can find help, but it's really hard to find good help.

  📍 📍 And I know that you, you've talked about the, the digital slavery, which is like heartbreaking. And I know that, you know, you'll see, I'll see ads on Facebook where it's like, Oh, hire your next assistant at 4 an hour. And it's like, Ugh. Wait, what? So let's, let's actually just start there because I know that some people are like, well, wait a second.

How, how much should I be paying someone from the Philippines? Um, and then like, is it, is the work just as good as if I were to hire somebody stateside?

  📍 such a good question. So I actually want to start from another question is like, why do we pick the Philippines? Um, and there's a reason because you, like you said, like you can find offshore work, um, and, and people to do a job almost anywhere. How do you figure out? Can they do the job and can they do it well?

And the reason why we specifically hire out of the Philippines is because of their inherent core values and also their American curriculum. So unlike some other countries that maybe use like the Queens English, they are trained on the American curriculum. So their English skills, their communication skills, their, um, their Americanisms, like we share a lot of pop culture.

Of the same pop culture, same Netflix, same Spotify, top hits. So it's really easy to communicate, but also in the Philippines, they have this hardworking, loyal family bond. That is what I really like because they almost like join you. Like you're part of their family. And when you're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner, you care so hard.

And it's nice to have a teammate that mirrors and works just as hard alongside you and, you know, they're fighting the good fight along. with you. And it really changes everything. Um, you also mentioned about the pricing. A lot of it is, you know, you, you get what you pay for, but you can get onshore quality at offshore prices just because the cost of living is cheaper there.

You know, if you were to move to the Philippines, you know, your bills would go down. So they, um, they accept a salary. That's a little bit less. However, what we do differently is we're just looking forward. You know, entry level positions. We headhunt and tailor based on, you know, what you need, what you are looking for, what experience.

So maybe you have, you know, someone who has done lead gen or social media for someone in the social media space before. So they're coming with experience and knowledge. So they're already coming in and leveling you up. So that's what I look for. It's like, I'm not just finding someone to fill the task in, but what do you need now?

And then the next three to six months as you're scaling, how does that person's experience and skill sets from previous positions align with where you want to go? So I think that's kind of like maybe where, where we think do things a little bit different, because it's a lot of strategy built in of like what you need.

And who you need.

  📍 Yeah. Well, and I think that, you know, like I said, I, I was nervous when I first hired my assistant. And I remember I worked at the staffing agency, um, when I found Raci and I was like, wait, she's how much an hour? Like, is that legal? Like, it doesn't feel. Right. Paying somebody, you know, 15 an hour, you know, 13 an hour.

Because, you know, like here in the United States, like I drive by the McDonald's sign and I'm like, well, starting pay at McDonald's is 26 an hour, you know, like, is that fair? And I, I do just want, I like, because I just want to bring this up because it is. It is a big objection for a lot of people thinking like, oh, well, you get what you pay for.

You're not paying, you know, the salary of like, you know, American salaries. So, I mean, the work's not going to be as good, but it's the cost of living, right? In the Philippines, it's just so different.

  📍 📍 It's so different. I mean, you can get a full beautiful meal for a few dollars, you know, so the money goes a lot further that way.

But even then we make sure that they are well taken care of. They have healthcare, they have opportunities. Remote work can be so lonely. So, you know, in the beginning, we've been doing this for five years now, you know, that was something that we heard.

  📍 📍 It's like. We don't have enough community connections. So we built this vibrant community of Filipinos so that they can stay engaged with each other during this, this remote work. Um, and it's really built a beautiful community and getting people to stay longer as well.

  Let's take a quick break. I have to tell you about something that I'm super excited about. If you've been podcasting for a while and you want to start actually making money from your show, you are going to love this. I have an upcoming masterclass where I'm going to teach you exactly how to land top paying sponsors, even if you have a small, but loyal audience, it is time to stop waiting for sponsors to knock on your door and start reaching out to the ones that really want.

Your audience ready to make it happen. Head to katiebrinkley. live slash RMM, or head to the link in the show notes. Grab your spot today. All right, let's get back to the show.

  📍 📍 Well, and I, I think that too, you know, it's regardless if you're in the Philippines or in Colorado or in Canada, wherever working remotely, and you know, you're talking to a computer screen all the time now, instead of like at the water cooler, it's a very big change. And I think that, uh, having that sort of community culture is extremely important.

And I know that, you know, like that one of the things that you do, like, even though. I have full time employees at Next Step Social, they're actually, you know, like full time employees of you, and you're doing a great job of ensuring that they're continuing, continuing their education, that they're, that, like you said, they have health insurance.

They're getting all the things that really make the biggest impact for, one, for longevity and that community feeling.

  📍 📍 Because happy people. Do better work. I mean, think about your jobs where you didn't want to show up and the jobs where you really like your work, the, the emphasis you give, the, the care you give

  📍 📍 so we like to keep them happy in all kinds of ways. So we're always trying to provide this well rounded community and compensation package so that they feel like they're taken care of and that they want to stay with you and continue to pour into you.

So let me tell you a really crazy statistic. I just found this out. On average, a Filipino offshore assistant will stay for maybe three months. Six after six, yes! After six months is considered like a win.   📍 📍 Okay. So he's been with me for almost five years now. Like should I have her move into my house or something? Like, I mean, I think you'd like build her a statue in your backyard or something.

I do want to build a statue to her. She's absolutely incredible. I will take billboards out all over Manila. Well, I do want to talk about, let's talk about Raci a little bit. Like I said, she was my very first hire. And when I hired her, I was, I felt like, man. What am I going to give her to do? Um, so let's, let's just talk about that at the very beginning.

So if somebody is listening right now and they're like, Well, I, I've, maybe you're convincing me a little bit about maybe I should hire someone, but what would they even do? Like, how do you help people find what it is that they need the most help with as they get that very first?

  📍 📍 Yes, such a good question. I start in two different ways. Okay, so if you're looking for your next hire or your first hire, I think about it in two ways. One, is there anything we can give this person that would help us bring in revenue? For example, maybe you want to, you're applying for grants. There's a lot of money on the table.

What if we brought in a grant writer that all they did was research, submit and write grants, right? That's something that's bringing in revenue for your company that you don't have to do. So that's one. So it's either a revenue generating job or. Things that they can take off your plate so that you can do the revenue generating jobs.

So I'm all about delegation. So if you're in this process, you're like, I have no idea where to even start. I have so many things going on. I suggest just a brain dump brain audit, get a piece of paper next to you. And as you're going through your day, whatever you're doing, jot it down. And this helps you, you know, identify what tasks are you doing and then go through that list.

Which can someone else do? What can we delegate? What is it that only Katie could do because this is your zone of genius? Like when it comes to social media strategy, that's Katie. When it comes to, you know, posting all of the, the images, that's not a Katie thing. It doesn't have to be done by Katie, right?

So I like to try to separate things, tasks that are revenue generating or all of the noise that can be taken off your plate so that you have the freedom and the mental clarity to get it done. That's really where I start with people.

  📍 Well, it's, and it, you know, writing down everything was huge. And one thing that I used when I was first trying to figure out what gaps, like where, where my time was being spent, that was not generating revenue. Um, I used toggle and, you know, GGL. Uh, and, and it's great because I was able to just, like, I even tracked like.

Going upstairs and getting a drink of water. I had no idea. Sometimes I was getting distracted and I'd come back like 40 minutes later because I started the laundry and the dishwasher, you know, and so, I mean, like, but I mean, when you're starting to track all that time, you really realize, oh man, I'm spending a ton of time in unproductive work.

That's not going to be moving the needle for my business. What would I do? If I had like, so for me, it was the podcast production. I was editing everything. I was recording the podcast. I was making the graphics. I was doing all the things. And then I was like, man, if I just got rid of six hours a week for the podcast, what, how else could I go and generate revenue?

Um, so yeah. And I mean, like now I have this little, this little time block cube thing, make sure I stay on track. I'm not using toggle as much as I used to, but that was a really good starting point for me to see. Where I could start delegating.

Now, let's say somebody is listening and they're like, I already have an assistant, Katie, you know, and you know, she's, she handles my email and does my social and I pay her for like 10, 10 hours a week.

I don't know if I need another one or there's nothing else I could really give her or him, you know, I think that it's finding, let us talk about how you can actually scale your business with. The use of hiring different assistants that, that have different superpowers because, you know, just kind of expecting someone to be able to do all the things.

I don't know if that's realistic or

  📍 📍 or, yeah, I think that's a, that's a big, um, pressure point or a breakage point. Um, when you're hiring, especially alone, as you try, you want this unicorn that can do all of these tasks. And the real unicorn is. Someone that can do the tasks well and communicate with you and show up for work and love what they do, like, that is the unicorn, okay?

Now, when you ask them to wear a few hats, that's where it's gonna get a little confusing. So I think, like, if I had one piece of advice to give someone who is hiring is I would make it very, Um, niche of the role, like if you're going to be doing social media, then you are good at engagement and posting and maybe editing a little bit of content, but you are not doing social media and I'm building the GHL funnels and I am onboarding clients with my amazing personality.

I feel like you're calling me out now because I have done that with one of my, one of the people that you helped me find, but he's really good at it. So yeah, shout out to PJ, um, and PJ is very good at all those things. Great at all the things. That's not what I hired him for to be great at all the things, but he is.

  📍 📍 So let's, let's talk a little bit more about when you find those people, you know, you said three to six months, that's it, that some of these assistants stay. Yeah, how, how can you help ensure that you don't have a higher turnover because man, it's hard to find it. It's hard to find good, it's hard to find good help these days.

Um, you know, so how can you make sure that when you find someone that's great, they stay?

  📍 Yes. So it all comes back to again, that is very holistic. So I look at when we onboard, you know, we go, we start from like the compensation package and it's not even like, okay, what if I can't pay 10, 15 because maybe you're really, you know, the beginning stages. Well, you can promise them no work on weekends.

You can promise them flexible work. So there's a, there's a part of it that is compensation, but it's also. A big part is work culture. So getting them to stay longer, making sure they're happy. You know, the Philippines is on the other side of the, on the earth, but they like, we choose people that like to work at night.

Um, so making sure they have flexibility in their role, they have plenty of time off, fair compensation. But one thing that really has people stay is we say, we call it like our core values, your voice matters. And it's like, you can tell me anything. If you see something. You can say something. You can give me feedback.

I will take it as a leader because if I find someone and they're good at their job and they like what they do, I gotta keep them there. So I'm always trying to like level with them. And I, you know, have Filipino staff members that they don't feel comfortable talking to me because they may see me as a boss or a leader.

  📍 📍 They can go other avenues to express, um, any frustrations or ideas. Yeah. So we talked about digital slavery a lot. You're going to get so much out of your people by giving them that voice because they're used to the digital slavery. It's heartbreaking. I mean, I, it's Keeps me up at night. Yeah, it's terrible.

And I mean, like, well, while the cost of living is cheaper over there, cheaper over in the Philippines, it doesn't mean that they, they shouldn't have a livable wage. Um, I mean, and or work life balance. Yeah, I mean, I mean, like 40 hours a week, like that's like, maybe that's not enough for them. Like, and they can have the opportunity to work more, or maybe they only want 20 hours a week, like whatever.

I think that, you know, strong communication with, with your team is. And, uh, I do think that if like, so we have eight, we were talking about this before I hit record, you know, I have eight people from the Philippines at work with us. And I think it's really important that they have. People that are in like their direct supervisor is also from the Philippines, you know, it's like racy's in charge of the prod, the podcast unit, you know, and she's in charge of five different people over there.

  📍 📍 So, I mean, I think it's great. So they can express, Hey, I'm starting to really not like working in the middle of the night, you know, and then racy and I can talk about it because racy's been with me for five years. She understands everything. And, you know, so I think it's really good to have. a strong team that feels like they can communicate easily with one another.

And if, if you find that they're not communicating with you, well, then maybe they're not happy. So, I mean, like, how, how do you, how do you encourage people to build those high performing teams? So, I mean, like I said, it, Raisi's been with me forever, you know, and she's been in every, literally every seat in the business.

Um, and so now she's sitting in the one that she enjoys the most and she's in charge of making sure that the five people underneath her are performing well as, so, I mean, like how, how do you kind of help people navigate, you know, the growth of building a high performing team?

  📍 good question, because I want them to be high performing without me stoking that fire. You know, I want them to want to be high performing. So one, it starts with picking the right person. Because you can't You can't get someone to show up every day and be like, this is going to be my best day. We're going to win today.

It's like that's born in a person. So one, you have to sort out the curiosity and the self development love and wanting to grow from the beginning. You can't teach someone that. Second, as a leader, it's our job. People do what they want or what their boss checks, right? And we don't want to be this micromanaging boss.

So how can we get them to want to do this, right? So for me, it's all about like putting the ball back in their court. So for example, right now I'm going through pipe break exercises. Now, instead of me being like, I'm the CEO, I'm going to figure out all the pipe breaks and all the departments mine tomorrow in my daily huddle.

Again, another tip, daily huddles, constant communication where everyone can share water cooler, what's going on wins, whatever. But I want to know, you know, For your department, because you're an expert in your own space. That's why I picked you, you know, what do you see? So I kind of like push the, the, um, authority back on them.

Like, you know, brainstorm a chat, GBT, here's a prompt, you know, here, watch me do it for my role. Watch me do it. So I haven't like shadow sometimes, especially if I'm like teaching them or getting them to do something different outside of their own thinking and boxes. Um, but I put it on them. It's like.

What goals would you like to see for yourself in Q1? What are your rocks for your department? So I kind of try to have them, because when they set their own goals, and I might seed it, you know, I'd love to see this and this for the department. Everybody take 20 minutes, come back, what are your goals for Q1?

  📍 📍 talk about it. Let's tweak it. Like, doesn't have to be the goals, just bring something. So that is, That is 1 thing. Um, a few things that I do

  📍 📍 Okay. So Gina, I think that that's one of the things too, like chat GPT is incredible for helping us brainstorm different ways.

on being a better leader. There's a lot of times where I'll sit down with chat GPT and I'll say, Hey, this is what I'm struggling with, um, within my business, what are some good things that I can do or delegate to help get them fixed? And I think that there's a lot of times where it's just great to have that, that, you know, computer, I guess, giving you feedback and brainstorming ideas because it's, uh, It's so much more than just another way of creating content and repurposing things.

Like really start talking to chat, GPT and like you are a sales expert. It's like, okay, good. Cause I'm not. So you are now exactly. So talk to us a little bit about your, your company is structured to scale. And you know, like I said, I've worked with you. I've had the opportunity to find a one part time and two full time employees with you.

And I mean, like, Let's just just talk to us a little bit about what it is that you do and kind of what structure to scale can help people with if they're listening and they're like, All right, well, I'm, I'm interested in maybe growing my business in 2025. I, and maybe going with an offshore talent is the way to do it.

I was a little on the fence before, but, you know, Katie, Gina, you convinced me otherwise, um, explain to us a little bit about structure to scale.   📍 📍

Sure. Sure. So, um, we Give people back their time, mental clarity, and freedoms really. Um, and we do that by putting the right people in the right process in the right seat. So we get to know you and what's going on, what gaps there are. And sometimes people know exactly what they need and what they want. A lot of the times they don't.

And even if you, you know, weren't ready to move forward, but you just wanted to talk it out and brainstorm.

  📍 📍 I love that. Even though you are, it's so great because when I first signed, you know, signed up to work with you, I remember we were just talking and the questions that you asked that helped me really.

Yeah. You know, get clarity around what the holes were that I needed filled. We're so helpful. So, I mean, it's, uh, definitely take up Gina on that offer, just to sit down and brainstorm because it, you, the questions that you ask are the questions that I think a lot of us might not be thinking about because we're so involved in the business, we don't really realize that you're in the weeds.

You can't see, and you can't see how things can connect. And you can't see that this role could do some of these and some of these. Yeah. You know, so it's really helpful to lay it on there. And I have so many, maybe, um, I can give away like some freebies, not even like join the mailing list thing, but like, um, the time audit exercise, like we can just like the comments for people.

Yeah. Do you have a URL for that? Like let's, um, yeah, the time audit exercise sounds awesome because I'm sure so many of us are just wasting time. I will, I don't have a URL for that. I will just give it. I will attach it to you. Um, but I do have, if you go to structure, the number to scale dot team structure to scale dot team, there is, um, the five top areas that I think you should outsource first.

So that'll be really helpful because you'll get to see a lot of the different roles in these five areas and tasks. So if you're like brand new, this would be the perfect starting point to kind of get your feet wet and see like the possibilities. I love it. So structure2scale. team. Go there. You can find out where, you know, what it is that you, you, you're missing the most.

  📍 📍 I love it. So structure2scale. team. Go there. You can find out where, you know, what it is that you, you, you're missing the most. And, um, I think that that's, that's going to be huge. Gina, if people want to connect with you on social media, if they want to learn more about you, other than structure2scale. team, what is the best way for them to follow and do all things Gina?

  📍 So, um, you can always go to our website, structure2scale. com, um, to, to learn more about us, but you can always find me at Gina Suzanne on LinkedIn. Um, I think that's about the only social I'm on because I like to live off the web, but I'm. I'm just busy getting you the right team members so that you can go and do your job and then I can just focus on finding you the best people and keeping them happy, um, so we can scale your company together.

But, yeah, in terms of, um, anything else, if anybody has any questions, my door is always open in terms of the right person onboarding, um, and scaling.

  📍 I love it. Well, Gina, thank you so much for joining us on Rocky Mountain Marketing today. Thank you so much for helping me find my dream unicorns and, um, really appreciate it. And it's true. I think that if you're sitting on the fence about whether now is the time to 📍 scale or not, um, grab some time, like with Gina, look at her, you know, structure to scale.

team and see exactly what hole within your company you need to get filled first.

  📍 Thanks so much, Katie.

 Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of Rocky Mountain Marketing. I hope you're leaving with valuable insights and the inspiration to lead your market. If you've enjoyed our time together and found today's podcast episode useful, I have a small favor to ask of you. Please hit that subscribe button to stay updated with the latest episodes.

And if you know someone who could benefit from these episodes, maybe a fellow business leader or an aspiring entrepreneur, go ahead and share this episode with them. Let's spread the knowledge and grow together. Also, I'd love to hear from you and continue the conversation beyond the podcast. Visit me at katiebrinkley.

com to connect, to find more resources, or just to share your journey. And be sure to pick up your copy of my new book, the social shift at Katie Brinkley. com slash book. Thanks again for tuning in. I'm Katie Brinkley, and I can't wait to dive into more strategies and stories with you on the next episode of Rocky mountain marketing.